Alright folks, we’ve got a bit of a surprise for you this week as we are going to welcome our first special guest into the ‘Shop. Jamieson Welsh (Fox Sports Radio, BelieveTheHypeNBA) is kind enough to take a seat in the chair for today’s discussion. We certainly appreciate you joining us, Jamieson. Let’s jump right into the mix.
Jabari: We’ll welcome the guest in first this week, and start with the Eastern Conference this time around. How real are the Hornets and can they be the challenge we’re all hoping the Cavaliers receive in order to at least make the Eastern Conference race interesting come next spring?
Jamieson: First of all thanks for having me, I definitely appreciate it. When I think of the Hornets I think of a tough team that plays hard but is a piece or two away from being a serious contender. Kemba gets better every year and he’s their leader but he’s not enough to get by the Cavs. In order to be able to compete with the Cavs you need to have multiple all stars and the Hornets don’t have that right now. Right now the best bet would be to get to the second round first before we take on much bigger challenges. It’s good to see MKG back and Kaminsky looking like a lottery pick, but in order to be a contender they must make a big move.
Lang: Good to have you in the ‘Shop, bro. I think you nailed the current state of the Charlotte Hornets. They remind me of … the 2009-2014 Atlanta Hawks. A team with a nice collection of parts, but not good enough to get past the second round of the playoffs. I think Kemba is a fantastic player and has a big heart. I also absolutely love Steve Clifford and how he gets guys to buy-in. He obviously cares about his relationships with players and their productivity shows it. But against a team like the Cleveland Cavaliers, as currently constructed at least, the Hornets are nothing more than roadkill. Against Cleveland, my nickname for them is “five and out” because that’s how long their series would last.
Jabari: #CavsIn5 is hilarious, Lang. Speaking of the Cavs, well, LeBron specifically. I have to admit to having mixed feelings about the whole “posse” situation Phil created. I want to say, for the record, I don’t think Phil Jackson is some diabolical racist or anything of that nature. That said, I still say he “created” the issue because he decided to needle LeBron and his associates without cause. He essentially opened the door for this scrutiny, seemingly just to throw a little shade.
While I’ve always viewed Jackson as a progressive thinker and someone devoid of racial bias, I do see where Maverick Carter and James are coming from in that his tone and message were very dismissive, so I see why the conversation about the verbiage is necessary.
Jamieson: The conversation is definitely necessary because of the context of the word Phil used. If the situation was different it wouldn’t have created a stir but, Phil being Phil, he knew what he was doing. A lot of credit has to go to Lebron and his people on the business decisions they’ve made. He’s empowered people who wouldn’t have normally gotten a chance to get that opportunity.
The biggest problem I have is why is Phil commenting on other teams situations and not his own. At the end of the day people in the front office and high ranking jobs in the league are fearful of Lebron and the rest of LRMR because of how powerful they are and how quickly they’ve made a mark in that industry. With that being said, when’s the last time Phil has been relevant in a basketball situation? Because the Knicks aren’t relevant at all.
Lang: Think about this … after all of the hype the Knicks had coming into the season, the biggest storyline surrounding the team right now has been generated by Phil Jackson, a 71 year-old clad in a suit far away from the on-court action. How sad is that? Really. This is the state of the Knicks?
But I’ll go deeper here … his star player, Carmelo Anthony, has been very vocal speaking out on minority inequality the past few months. Very vocal. How could you miss it? You would think Phil would be a bit more cautious with his words from that fact alone. Team executives know what kind of civic activities their stars are involved in … they’re asked about it all the time. Especially in a place like New York. Where is the self-awareness?
Do I think he’s racist? Nah. But the word he chose to use, and he knew exactly what he was doing, is filled with all types of code. As a minority I’ve heard them before; posse, entourage, gang, mob, cronies, bandits, etc. He could have just said “LeBron’s crew” and no one would have raised an eyebrow. It would have been as quiet as a mouse relieving itself on a piece of cotton. He could have said “L.eBron’s inner circle” or “LeBron’s clique” for instance. I don’t think it was racist. I think it was typical old man – these young guys move differently than my generation and I can’t understand it – type of talk. But since we have a country right now dealing with a lot of racial issues, it is perfectly normal for people to question Phil’s angle on this. He was born in 1945 … he was about to turn 19 when the Civil Rights Bill passed in 1964. For him to be so careless with his words is downright disappointing – especially with his background.
Jabari: Excellent points by each of you, so I won’t belabor the subject any further beyond saying, in contrast, how refreshing it has been to see head coaches like Gregg Popovich, Stan Van Gundy and Steve Kerr being so progressive, open and honest about recent events, issues and some of the difficult conversations others are either uncomfortable or unwilling to have. In fact, each of them is not only invited to the cookout, but they can have the last few ribs.
Ok, Jamieson, the last topic of the week will be the point guard position. With Russell Westbrook and Chris Paul playing so well for their respective teams, let me get you to rank the following group and let me know which you’d go with if you were starting YOUR squad: Westbrook, Paul, Steph Curry, Damian Lillard, Kyrie Irving?
Jamieson: Man that’s a great question and tough, but give me Steph at number one. He’s the MVP and the guy who is changing how the game is played. My number two guy is Dame because of what he’s doing on the court and his leadership abilities. Let’s face it, he probably has the worst supporting cast of all the guys listed. Next is Russ, he’s the guy that’s must see TV and most capable of getting a triple-double on any given night. I don’t know how this season will turn out but I do know we’ll see a modern record for triple-doubles in a season for him.
This is a very tough list but putting Kyrie at four is really intriguing because you can make a case he’s the number two guy. Even though he doesn’t facilitate the offense he’s found his spot in that offense and is as confident as ever. Last but not least the face of the point guard position over the last decade is CP3. His body of work has been extremely impressive over his career and he is still an elite point guard.
The PG spot is a young man’s position and the other guys are in the prime of their careers more so than Paul is. Still, no one has been the face of a position over the last decade like Chris Paul and he’s also the guy who has displayed the best balance between distributing the basketball and scoring.
Jabari: I’ve always been of the opinion that when you are dealing with the top three or four players at a given position, you really can’t go wrong in terms of ranking. It often comes down to what type or style of player you prefer, so I can certainly appreciate your reasoning there. On behalf of Sir Greene, thanks again for joining, Jamieson.
Folks, that will wrap it up for this week, but make sure you keep providing your feedback via Twitter with the new hashtag: #ShopTalk. Our own Alex Kennedy will pay the ‘Shop a visit next week, so make sure you share your topics with @AlexKennedyNBA, @LangGreene and @JabariDavisNBA.
Knicks Holdovers Proved Something to Carmelo Anthony and the NBA
Did Carmelo fail the Knicks, or vice versa? As his former teammates proved, the answer is somewhere in the middle.
As he walked up the tunnel in his dapper outfit and slick looking fedora, Carmelo Anthony had spent the past few nights thinking about this moment. For the first time as a member of the Thunder, Anthony returned to Madison Square Garden. The building still looked the same, but it understandably felt quite different.
Seeing friends and family he’s missed since relocating to Oklahoma City, Anthony knew that he would be headed for an emotional experience. After a triple-overtime game in Philadelphia the night prior, Anthony said he’d be ready to play at MSG, legs be damned. He made no secret about wanting to score a win on his former playground, and never did he imagine that his former teammates wanted to beat him more than he wanted to beat them.
Even without Kristaps Porzingis, that’s exactly what the Knicks went out and did.
To Anthony’s former teammates, the game meant something, but probably not for the reasons one would most immediately suspect.
* * * * * *
When LeBron James spurned the Knicks and announced his intentions to take his talents to South Beach, word began to trickle out of Denver that another big fish had his eyes on New York.
It was there, in the aftermath of heartbreak that the Knicks and their fan’s infatuation with Anthony began.
Anthony would eventually find his way to the team in February 2011, after successfully leveraging the Knicks into going against the wishes of then-executive Donnie Walsh in executing a trade with the Nuggets. The prevailing sentiment was that wise teams don’t give up assets for players they could get via free agency, and with Anthony just five months from potential hitting the open market, the wise money said to wait.
Melo had other ideas.
While what was said behind closed doors still remains somewhat of a mystery, the fact is that Anthony never understood the consequences that the Knicks would face by executing a trade with the Nuggets. Out of a fear of his accepting a trade to the Nets, owner James Dolan flinched and gave the Nuggets the Knicks’ farm.
Anthony will forever wear the fact that he wouldn’t put the franchise’s longterm best interests above his personal financial security, and while it’s easy to understand the quandary, plenty of Knicks fans felt that his conduct was selfish and indicative of a player who put winning second to his finances. That’s Anthony’s Scarlett letter.
In the years that followed, even with the talented superstar, the Knicks would spend the majority of his career in New York lacking the talent required to compete for supremacy atop the Eastern Conference.
As the years progressed and the Knicks continued to flounder, fans in New York inevitably split. Some blamed Anthony for the franchise’s failure to achieve higher. By forcing the trade, they’d argued, Anthony stripped the team of its assets, many of which could have been used to help acquire reinforcements for him.
Those that defend Anthony would sooner point to the organization’s lack of continuity—both on the bench and in the front office—as the primary reason the team continually fell short.
The truth, of course, lies somewhere in the middle.
And so have the scores of teammates that were cycled in and out of New York in a real-life basketball version of musical chairs.
* * * * * *
Player movement in the NBA has become its own phenomenon. Now, more than ever, superstar players understand their power and that their teams will often cast them aside when their usefulness has expired. Loyalty is fleeting.
As a result, we often spend time trying to figure out who’ll switch teams next. DeMarcus Cousins and Kyrie Irving won’t be the last.
In our discussions, we often spend time talking about things from the superstars’ perspective. The narratives that get told often revolve around the inadequacy of coaching and the lack of auxiliary talent, not the superstar’s inability to adapt and maximize.
So when a player like Anthony is deemed to need to relocate in order to have an opportunity to win at the highest levels, players like Lance Thomas, Courtney Lee and even Kristaps Porzingis begin to be thought of as players who aren’t good enough to succeed in any serious way in the league.
It usually takes many years of futility with more than one team for the superstar to be the one considered inadequate.
So when Anthony and the Thunder came into Madison Square Garden on Saturday night, the 10-time All-Star wasn’t the only one that had something to prove. Subliminally, the role players left behind—the team that many expected to find itself in the lottery once the season was over—was just as eager to prove that the team’s failure to win around Anthony wasn’t completely due to their shortcomings as professionals.
As the Knicks soundly defeated the Thunder by a final score of 111-96, there’s no doubt that the Thunder’s triple-overtime game in Philadelphia the night before had an impact, but there’s also no doubt that there just so happened to be a little extra pep in the step of each Knick player that had something to prove. Playing without Porzingis only strengthened the team’s resolve.
And when it was all said and done, the Knicks fans that curiously booed Anthony proved a central point: there is a large section of them that believe that Anthony somehow held the team back. His shortcomings have always been well-founded, and the Knicks underachieved mightily with him as its core.
Those that cheered for him and continue to cheer for him, though, understand that the failures of the franchise has always been a two-way street. That Anthony chose New York—a franchise that has been marked by poor management and poorer decisions—resonates heavily.
Sure, Anthony may have failed the Knicks, but they failed him, too. And in the face of it, all Anthony ever did was show up, play hard and answer every question ever posed to him—authentically and honestly.
He proudly wore New York across his chest and showed up every day. In a world where LeBron leaves for Miami and Durant leaves for Oakland, Anthony’s commitment to New York should have meant something to all Knicks fans, but it only meant something to a few.
Flaws and all, Anthony chose New York and it wasn’t until he was told in certain terms that the organization wanted to move on that he honored their wish.
And in the end, Anthony waived his no-trade clause to head to Oklahoma City. In return, the Knicks got Enes Kanter, Doug McDermott and the rights to the Chicago Bulls’ second round pick in 2018 NBA Draft.
Still, heading into the season, the Knicks were projected to be a lottery team. Without a player the caliber of him, they were thought to be a long shot for the playoffs.
Holdovers from last year’s team knew what people were saying about them, and although head coach Jeff Hornacek refused to admit it, there is genuine surprise around the team that, at 16-13, has matched its record through the first 29 games last season.
Perhaps those that booed Anthony on Saturday night did so because of some warped sense of reality. Perhaps they believed that it was Anthony that quit on the team and not vice versa. As we look back at Anthony’s tenure, we were wrong about a lot of things—the depth of his love for the team and the city is not superficial, as some began to think along the way.
We were also wrong about his ability to be the foundational piece on a championship contender.
And, of course, above all, we were wrong about what the Knicks would be capable of once he departed.
As the Knicks surprised him with a tribute video during the introduction of the game’s starting lineups, it was obvious that his former teammates and Michael Beasley, the one who proclaimed to be an adequate replacement for Anthony, wanted to prove that the failures of the team to achieve highly wasn’t all because of them.
No, the Knicks might not be a title contender, but we live in a world where a superstar players’ failure to win big is often blamed on the inadequacy of his supporting cast. Sometimes, the superstar is the problem.
Perhaps that’s why the reaction to Anthony was mixed.
Regardless, wherever you stand as it relates to his place as being underrated or overhyped, the night truly belonged to those caught in the middle of the shortcomings of Anthony and the Knicks.
And in some small way, to Anthony and the rest of the NBA, on Anthony’s old playground, the Porzingis-less Knicks proved something.
Sometimes, they’re not the problem.
Fred VanVleet is Finding Success in the NBA
David Yapkowitz speaks to Toronto’s Fred VanVleet about his unheralded path to the NBA and more.
Fred VanVleet is used to being the underdog. Prior to the NBA, he spent four seasons at Wichita State, a school that hasn’t always been in the national spotlight when it comes to college basketball. Even after he finished his college career in impressive fashion, leading the Shockers to the NCAA tournament every year he was there, he went undrafted in the 2016 NBA draft.
But despite the lack of recognition from national media outlets, VanVleet always knew that he was good enough to play in the NBA. He knew that his path to the league was going to be much different than many other top prospects, but he was confident. He put his trust in NBA personnel to recognize what was right in front of them.
“If you can play, they’re gonna find you. That’s the best thing about the NBA, you can’t hide forever,” VanVleet told Basketball Insiders. “You just got to try to wait and keep grinding for the opportunity, and when it comes be ready to make the most of it and that’s what I did.”
Making the most of his opportunity is definitely what he’s done. After he went undrafted in 2016, he joined the Toronto Raptors’ summer league team in Las Vegas. He put up decent numbers to the tune of 6.2 points, 3.0 rebounds, 1.6 assists, and 54.5 percent shooting from the three-point line.
He also showed solid defensive potential as well as the ability to run a steady offense. The Raptors were impressed by his performance and they invited him to training camp for a chance to make the team. They already had 14 guaranteed contracts at the time and had invited five other players, in addition to VanVleet, to camp.
VanVleet did his best to stand out in training camp that year, capping off the 2016 preseason with a 31 point, five rebound, five assist performance against San Lorenzo de Almagro of Argentina. The Raptors were in need of another point guard after Delon Wright was ruled out to start the season due to an injury.
Not only did he make the Raptors’ opening night roster, but he ended up playing some big minutes for the team as the season went on. This year, he started out as the third-string point guard once again. But with another injury to Wright, he’s solidified himself as the backup point for the time being.
“You just want to grow each year and get better. I had a smaller role last year, I’m just trying to improve on that and get better,” VanVleet said. “It’s a long process, you just try to get better each game on a pretty good team, a winning team. Being able to contribute to that is what you work for.”
VanVleet’s journey to the NBA is one that is not very common anymore for players coming out of college. More and more players are opting to spend one, maybe two years at most in college before declaring for the NBA draft.
Players like VanVleet, who spend the entire four years in college, are becoming more of a rarity. Although for him, he feels like the additional time spent at Wichita State helped him make more of a seamless transition to the NBA than some of his younger peers.
“I think more so off the court than anything, just being an adult, being a grown man coming in the door,” VanVleet said. “A pro before being a pro, being able to take care of your business. Coming in every day doing your job and being able to handle the things that come with the life off the court.”
The NBA season is a long one. Teams that start out hot sometimes end up fizzling out before the season’s end. Similarly, teams that that get off to a slow start sometimes pick it up as the season progresses. The Raptors have been one of the better teams in the Eastern Conference the past couple of years and this season looks to be no different.
Even with the Boston Celtics’ hot start, the Raptors are only three games back of the top spot in the East. They’re only one game back in the loss column. There was a time when mentioning the word ‘championship’ was unheard of around this team. Things are different now.
“We’re trying to contend for a championship. Obviously, we’ve been at the top of the East for the last few years,” VanVleet said. “We’re trying to get over that hump and contend for a championship, that’s definitely our goal. It’s a long year and still pretty early, but we’re just trying to grow and build and get better each game.”
NBA DAILY: Tyrone Wallace Is Breaking Out in His Own Backyard
On his second G-Leauge team in two years, Tyrone Wallace is putting up numbers close to home, working towards his NBA shot.
Located in the heart of Southern California, Bakersfield sits just on the cusp of Los Angeles’ shadow.
In terms of size, it’s not easy to overlook this Californian destination. Bakersfield is the ninth most populated city in the state. But it doesn’t hold the glamour that its contemporary two hours south down Interstate-5 possesses. Instead, Bakersfield rests its laurels on the farming past that made it the city it has become today, with three of the four top employers in the city either being farm or produce companies.
Working for a produce company doesn’t interest Tyrone Wallace, though. He’d much rather spend his time on the hardwood. Wallace grew up in Bakersfield. He’s Bakersfield High School’s all-time leading scorer and two-time Bakersfield Californian Player of the Year.
Wallace has sown his oats with a leather ball as opposed to some vegetables.
Growing up in Bakersfield is crucial to Wallace’s story, however. On the outskirts of Los Angeles, Wallace grew up a hardcore Lakers fan, caught up in the generation of kids who idolized Kobe Bryant. It’s Kobe, and Wallace’s brother, Ryan Caroline, who led him to where he is now.
Where that is, exactly, is playing professional basketball in the NBA G-League for the Agua Caliente Clippers. About another 45 minutes down Interstate-5 from his hometown.
For Wallace, getting an opportunity to work towards his dream of playing basketball at the highest level so close to home is a blessing.
“It’s been really fun for me,” Wallace told Basketball Insiders. “You know (Bakersfield) is a smaller city, not too many guys make it out, especially for basketball. It’s more of a football city, but the support there is awesome. Everybody’s behind me you know. Good games, bad games, guys are treating me, and you know the whole city is, I feel the whole support from the city. So to be so close to home is definitely a treat. I have friends and family that will come out to our games quite often. During preseason I had friends and family come out and watch. It’s been a blessing.”
Playing in front of familiar faces isn’t new territory for Wallace. After making his mark in Bakersfield, the 6-foot-4 guard went on to play his college ball at the University of California. Amid his four years at Cal, Wallace finished first-team All-Pac 12 his junior year, along with being named a finalist for the Bob Cousy Award, given to the nation’s best point guard.
Sharing the court with the likes of other NBA players like Jaylen Brown and Ivan Rabb in college, Wallace joined the professional fraternity himself at the eleventh hour on draft night in 2016 when the Utah Jazz selected him 60th overall.
Pick one, or pick 60. It didn’t matter to Wallace that night in June. He was just happy to get the first chance he worked his whole life for.
“It was emotional, man,” Wallace said. “You watch everybody and see them go, I had Jaylen (Brown) earlier in the first round who I was really excited for. Just sitting there, pick after pick you’re waiting there hoping you get called. But it was a dream come true, better late than never. Very few people get the opportunity to say that they were drafted so it was emotional. But after I was finally selected, I was happy, there was tears of joy. There was a lot of family with me watching throughout and we were just sitting there hoping to be called, and it happened, so it was a dream come true.”
After being selected by the Jazz, Wallace experienced his first summer league action. His performance at the time was marginal, and didn’t warrant an invite to the big league club. Instead, Wallace found himself down in the minors for Utah, with their G-League affiliate, the Salt Lake City Stars.
During Wallace’s first taste of professional basketball, he displayed some flashes of why, as he put it, he was one of 60 guys drafted in 2016. His first season in the G-League was promising when he posted per game averages of 14.8 points, 3.8 rebounds, 3.6 assists, and 1.3 steals on 27 minutes of action a night.
Alas, that wasn’t good enough for the Jazz organization. On July 18, 2017, just over a year after being selected with the last overall pick on draft night, Utah renounced Wallace’s draft rights, leaving him free to sign with any team.
For some, being let go after what could be considered a productive developmental year may have been a derailing let down. Not Wallace, though.
“I think in every situation you always reflect,” Wallace said. “And look back and say what could I have done better, on the court or off the court. So I think you know you always do that, but I’ve always stayed confident in myself, and I believe in myself. I kinda let that as a new opportunity that I was gonna have to go somewhere else and prove that I can play, and that I can belong. So I wanted to continue. I look at everything as a chance to learn and grow so I was just excited for the new opportunity that would be coming for me.”
New opportunities did come for Wallace. More than a few actually. But it was the opportunity that allowed the California native a chance to return to the place that led him to professional basketball initially, that has really allowed the second-year guard to flourish.
On Sept. 27, Wallace inked a deal with the Los Angeles Clippers. They weren’t his childhood favorite Lakers, but they were the same distance down Interstate-5 from his hometown. Most of all, they represented a chance to keep chasing his dream.
After playing in the preseason, Wallace was one of the last players cut from the NBA roster, and he again found himself in the G-League. This time with Agua Caliente.
Wallace’s second go-around in the G-League so far this season feels different than his last, though. Almost as if the comfort of playing in his own backyard, something he’s been accustomed to for the majority of his basketball life, is easing him out on the court. Whatever it is, it’s reflecting itself in his performance. This year, Wallace upped his averages from last season to 22.5 points, 6.2 rebounds, and five assists per game.
“I worked really hard this summer,” Wallace said. “Just going to the gym, hitting the weight room. I don’t think I necessarily changed anything. I just think being a year in, another year of experience playing in the G-League, I think that helped within itself. Then I think the system here that we run in LA helped a lot, fits my game, more uptempo. Trying to get out on the break, a lot of pick and rolls. So I think everything just took off at once. I definitely feel like I got better in the offseason, but also just playing in this system where it helps my game.”
It’s been an interesting journey for Wallace since he left college. With the way things have shaped out, especially during this season where he seems to do no wrong on the court, it’s imperative he stays focused on his own goals. Instead of looking at others across the league who may be getting a shot he feels he deserves, Wallace wants to just “stay in my own lane.” Patience and hard work are what Wallace believe will ultimately deliver the goals he’s after.
“I know it’s coming,” he said.
When that opportunity does come, whether it’s near home in Los Angeles, or somewhere else across the country, Wallace will be happy to just be wanted. Just like the way Bakersfield has always treated him.
“Man, I’ll tell you any team for me it would be great,” Wallace said. “I haven’t really had a real NBA deal, and so for me just getting to that level on a team would definitely be a dream come true. I don’t have a specific team I would like to play for. Whoever wants me, I’ll want them.”